Responses to ... 'North By Northwest' (1959)

[sawakatoome]

One element of this film just hit me. Why was the character of the
mother created?

I mean, this isn't 'Psycho' or 'Frenzy' or 'Shadow of a Doubt' .. we
don't need to learn about our protagonist's past life, psychology's not
what its about, its a fun film. And anyway, if we're going to learn
about his past life, why not Eve's too?

Seriously, the mother appears first in the dialogue between Thornhill
and his secretary in the back of the taxi. He speaks of her
suspiciousness of him, especially regarding how he lives his life
("Tell her I'll have had two martini's, so she needn't bother to sniff
my breath").

Later (and hilariously for us), he phones her when he's been arrested.
The banter between the two (we only hear his side but we can fill in
the blanks) is typical, I think, of two people who are very close .. so
close, they almost know what the other is going to say. The
conversation includes such fun and flirtatious dialogue, sharing a
private joke at another's expense, as "I don't know, I'll ask him ...
Sgt. Emile Klinger ... Emile?! .. No, I don't believe it either".

Later again and we finally meet her. She attends Roger's court
appearance. During this scene, she makes fun of Roger, letting out an
exasperated (but not mean) sigh when the judge asks the defending
counsel if he believes his client a good man.

After this, we're off to Townsend's house, where again, she gently
undermines Roger (sighing at the opportune moment, jokily telling her
son to "Pay the two dollars").

And then on to her final scenes, at the Plaza Hotel .. first the lobby,
then outside and inside Kaplan's room and, last but not least, the
elevator where she shockingly and beautifully confronts VanDamm's two
henchmen ("You gentlemen aren't *really* trying to kill my son, are
you?").

It has to be said though, her final line in the film, "Roger, will you
be home for dinner?", tells us that possibly Roger does indeed need to
grow up and let go of the mother's apron strings.

And her last 'appearance' in the film is in a phone conversation she
has with Roger when he's at Grand Central Station, about to flee by
train. Here, yet again, their conversation is playful ("Well, have you
ever tried jumping off a moving plane?").

Fergal #.

P.S: Interesting that Eve doesn't make an appearance until after the
mother has exited the film.

[Bob K.]

Oddly, the actress who plays Thornhill's mother (i.e. Jesse Royce
Landis) was 10 months younger than Cary Grant, each being born in 1904.
I wonder if there was an Oedipal message there.

Interesting trivia note: The character Lester Townsend, who gets a knife
in his back at the U.N., was played by actor Philip Ober who was married
to Vivian Vance (i.e. "Ethel Mertz" on I Love Lucy.)

[Steve Latham]

Post by Bob K.
Oddly, the actress who plays Thornhill's mother (i.e. Jesse Royce
Landis) was 10 months younger than Cary Grant, each being born in 1904.

Isn't there some uncertainty about Grant's date of birth?

Post by Bob K.
I wonder if there was an Oedipal message there.

I don't think in the ages. There was certainly an interesting dynamic
between the two - but it struck me more as the momma's boy/overbearing
mother scenario. If he was interested in a girl that was just like his
mother, I'd go a bit further.

Steve

[sawakatoome]

Post by Bob K.
Oddly, the actress who plays Thornhill's mother (i.e. Jesse Royce
Landis) was 10 months younger than Cary Grant, each being born in 1904.

sawky replies:
I know its not infallible but the IMDb has Grant
(http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000026/) and Landis
(http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0484829/) as being born eight years apart,
Landis born 25/22/1896, Grant 18/1/1904.

[sawakatoome]

Landis born 25/22/1896 ...

I correct:
That should be 25/11/1896, excuse me .. someone obviously switched the
keys on my keyboadr.

[Bob K.]

Flossy says:

Copied and pasted from
http://www.leninimports.com/hitchcock_north_by_northwest.html --

"Jessie Royce Landis played Thornhill's (Cary Grant's) mother, yet in
real life he was ten months older than her (both were born in 1904,
making them in their mid-fifties when the film was made). As handsome as
Grant was, this does look odd in the film, with Landis looking more like
a wife than a mother!"

--------------------//--------------------

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=%22Jessie+Royce+Landis%22+born+1904

[sawakatoome]

Post by Bob K.
Copied and pasted from
http://www.leninimports.com/hitchcock_north_by_northwest.html --
"Jessie Royce Landis played Thornhill's (Cary Grant's) mother, yet in
real life he was ten months older than her (both were born in 1904,
making them in their mid-fifties when the film was made). As handsome as
Grant was, this does look odd in the film, with Landis looking more like
a wife than a mother!"

That's what I'd always thought .. hence my confusion.
Someone ought to inform IMDb!

[Steve Latham]

Post by sawakatoome
One element of this film just hit me. Why was the character of the
mother created?
I mean, this isn't 'Psycho' or 'Frenzy' or 'Shadow of a Doubt' .. we
don't need to learn about our protagonist's past life, psychology's not
what its about, its a fun film. And anyway, if we're going to learn
about his past life, why not Eve's too?

But isn't she there to show us something about him.? His relationship with
his mother is interesting - she chides him like a child when he tells her
the truth - she like everyone else doesn't believe him. He's the bachelor,
right? I think he's in some ways like a child with some apron strings
attached. There's some familiairty between them (it's like, he would hang
out with her and go to the opera or dinner), but there's also some
"parenting" in there still. It seems to me that part of the movie is about
Thornhill "becoming a man" through this whole experience that shows him that
there are people living very different lives than what his otherwise
"sheltered" life is about (not that he's not had his share of living, but I
mean that there's some connection to being "the son").

Post by sawakatoome
Seriously, the mother appears first in the dialogue between Thornhill
and his secretary in the back of the taxi. He speaks of her
suspiciousness of him, especially regarding how he lives his life
("Tell her I'll have had two martini's, so she needn't bother to sniff
my breath").

Right. momma's still trying to tell him what to do.

Post by sawakatoome
Later (and hilariously for us), he phones her when he's been arrested.
The banter between the two (we only hear his side but we can fill in
the blanks) is typical, I think, of two people who are very close .. so
close, they almost know what the other is going to say. The
conversation includes such fun and flirtatious dialogue, sharing a
private joke at another's expense, as "I don't know, I'll ask him ...
Sgt. Emile Klinger ... Emile?! .. No, I don't believe it either".

Yes, that familiarity I was mentioning. It's like their both friends and
relatives.

Post by sawakatoome
Later again and we finally meet her. She attends Roger's court
appearance. During this scene, she makes fun of Roger, letting out an
exasperated (but not mean) sigh when the judge asks the defending
counsel if he believes his client a good man.

Typical mother activity (maybe stereotyped). She might say he's not a good
man because he hasn't found a good woman, not because he's a criminal.

Post by sawakatoome
After this, we're off to Townsend's house, where again, she gently
undermines Roger (sighing at the opportune moment, jokily telling her
son to "Pay the two dollars").

Yes, it's the whole guilt your children, run their lives, make them feel
chidlish (and I think that's really what it's about here).

Post by sawakatoome
And then on to her final scenes, at the Plaza Hotel .. first the lobby,
then outside and inside Kaplan's room and, last but not least, the
elevator where she shockingly and beautifully confronts VanDamm's two
henchmen ("You gentlemen aren't *really* trying to kill my son, are
you?").

Where I think we're seeing the "little world" and the "real world" that
Roger's now becoming a part of. In her mind, things like that probably just
don't happen. Especially not to them. I think the whole "journey" idea is
there - it's not only a physical journey (various modes of transportation,
the car, train, planes, etc.) but a journey out of one paradigm into
another.

Post by sawakatoome
It has to be said though, her final line in the film, "Roger, will you
be home for dinner?", tells us that possibly Roger does indeed need to
grow up and let go of the mother's apron strings.

Oh thank you. You said it. I agree.

[snip]

Post by sawakatoome
P.S: Interesting that Eve doesn't make an appearance until after the
mother has exited the film.

That is kind of interesting. You'd think there'd be some cross-over. Hmmm.

Steve